“If the only country benefiting from this is Iran, why would Israel play right into their hands to begin with, or call a cease-fire now if there is no benefit to them?”

As a sovereign country Israel has the responsibility to defend its citizens and borders.  Hamas picked the time and place for their actions and Israel responded.

As to both Palestinian and Israeli Gandhis… why not.

The Palestinians are a pawn used by everyone… Arabs, Israel, Iran, Europe, Eurabia, Fatah, Hamas, Nassarists (if they still exist), the Developing World, the United Nations… and the Palestinians themselves who “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity” when it comes to peace.

Like you, 13strong, I don’t know what the answer is.  Perhaps a Palestinian Ghandi or Martin Luther King, Jr will appear.  But, it is quite evident that the current strategy of conflict and misery (in use since before 1948) is not working.

Thank you, 13strong, for your your civil and insightful comments regarding my post.  As to your comments about Iran and Hamas you will find many articles about the situation through Google from resources such as The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The BBC as well as many others.  In fact, The New York Times has such an article  (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13iran.html?hp) from January 12, 2009 titled, “Iran Gives Hamas Enthusiastic Support, but Discreetly, Just in Case.”Again, who benefits?  While Hamas party members and combatants may think that conflict will lead to martyrdom and the rewards that await them in heaven, what does conflict of this nature have to do with ordinary people who are just try to live their lives?  Once again Palestinians have been used by another power as expendable pawns in a no-win conflict.Just think what Palestinians and Israelis together could achieve without war or the threat of war.

After two weeks of hostilities (which Hamas instigated), UN ineffectiveness and international calls for a ceasefire, one has to ask… who is benefiting from this violence?  The average Palestinian in the street… I wouldn’t think so, what’s this going to get them but more misery.  Hamas… perhaps, but to what reasonable end?  I mean, sure their covenant calls for the destruction of Israel but, this just ain’t working (time for a new game plan).  The Israelis… nope.  These folks have better things to do, such as raising their children, taking care of their people, building their society.  Lets see… the Egyptians…no, they’re trying to broker peace as is Turkey and Jordon (the Hashemite Kingdom doesn’t need this right now). The West Bank Palestinian… they don’t seem to want to get involved. Hezbollah…gee, did they really win the conflict two years ago… awfully quiet.  The Saudis… well we really haven’t heard from them but it’s doubtful. How about the Syrians… possibly, but haven’t they been having secret negotiations with Israel through Turkey… unless, of course, Iran told them to knock it off.  Wait that’s it…Iran.  Iran benefits from all this.  They continue to want to control Syria and they certainly control Hamas and Hezbollah.  So what do they gain.  Well, they’re able to give lip service to their brave Revolutionary Guard being ready to support the Palestinian people… great propaganda to rally the Arab masses.  But, in fact, Iran hides behind the Palestinians just as Hamas hides behind homes, schools and mosques… such bravery.  What this conflict allows is for radical Shias in Iran to open up an area of tension right in an area dominated by Sunnis.  One piece of information that I find most interesting is that if Iran gets the bomb, the Saudis, Egyptians and Turkey have already stated that they would begin programs to get nukes themselves… what makes this interesting is that Israel has been reported to have a number of nukes for several decades and at no time did those countries see the need for them. Obviously, the Sunnis see Iran as a clear and present danger and by extension… Hamas.  As I said, time for a new game plan. Hamas, get a new covenant and get serious about peace.  Israel, take a step back and let everyone take a moment to breathe again, and offer a chance for peace.

Israel is not being provocative… it’s Israel’s being that is provocative.

And one more thing,

Suncaster, I want to party with you.

I do not speak for Israel, nor have I said they have the high moral ground.  And I don’t think that Israel looks to Hamas to set any examples… and I certainly don’t think that Israel should be held to a higher standard than other nations.  What I do believe is that there has to be a better way.  How we get there in large part is based on exchanging ideas… as we are doing now… but we can’t exchange ideas by yelling and name-calling.  All of us must be much more respectful of others.  If you are a person of religion please understand that your religion is only one of many… and that there are other truths.  If you are a secular person or a non-believer don’t belittle the beliefs of those who follow their faith.  Look, this world of ours is in terrible trouble… what are we going to do about it?

“… to add to the previous point.. since you say palestinians deserve what they are getting because they voted for Hamas… how about the people that did not vote for that group? do they deserve to die as well?”Never said that.  What I was trying to state is that there facts that can’t be overlooked.  I think that the Palestinians have suffered for a whole of reasons… sometimes because of Israel but often at the hands of other Palestinians and more often than not at the hands of despots in the middle East who use war as a way of enriching themselves and weakening the people’s resolve.  Whatever the reason Hamas needs to find a better way than war… Hamas needs to build Gaza, to enhance the standard of living for the people who have entrusted it with their vote.

Israel has not occupied Gaza since September 12, 2005,
thereby allowing the Palestinian people of the strip to set up its own
governing standards without an occupying entity dictating the terms.  

Elections were held (in Gaza and the West Bank), on January
25, 2006.  Voting participation was
quite high (77% overall, with 81% in Gaza). Contesting for power were Fatah and
Hamas. Hamas is the largest and most influential Palestinian militant (emphasis
militant) movement. Hamas won the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) general
legislative elections, defeating Fatah, the party of the PA’s president,
Mahmoud Abbas, and setting the stage for a power struggle between the two
groups. 

Since attaining power, Hamas has continued its refusal to
recognize the state of Israel, and continues to call for Israel destruction
through armed conflict.  This has
lead to economic sanctions.

Hamas, which grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood, is a
terrorist group supported by Iran and Hezbollah, carrying out suicide bombings
and attacks using mortars and short-range rockets. Hamas has launched attacks
both in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and inside
the pre-1967 boundaries of Israel. 

While many observers had hoped that governing
responsibilities would wean Hamas from terror and violence it clearly has not.
To date, the group has refused to abstain from violence and remains adamant
about reversing the decision by its rival faction, the more secular Fatah
movement, to recognize Israel’s right to exist. In the summer of 2007, Hamas
tensions with Fatah came to a head and Hamas routed Fatah supporters, killing
many and sending others fleeing to the West Bank. The result was a de facto
geographic division of Palestinian-held territory.

Since coming to power in Gaza, rockets fired by Hamas
militants have consistently landed on Israeli cities near the border, sometimes
producing casualties.  It is only
because of the early warning system and shelters that Israel had constructed
for protection that casualties were not higher. A six-month ceasefire calmed
things somewhat in 2008, but toward the end of the year, Hamas called off the
truce and resumed firing rockets into Israel.  The response was an air assault in late December and, in the
first week of 2009, a full-blown Israeli invasion of the territory.

Hamas’ founding charter commits the group to the destruction
of Israel, the replacement of the PA with an Islamist state on the West Bank
and Gaza, and to raising “the banner of Allah over every inch of
Palestine.” Hamas believes “peace talks will do no good,” said
the Hamas leader Abd al-Aziz Rantisi in April 2004. “We do not believe we
can live with the enemy.”

The conflict is a situation with seemingly no end in
sight.  Israel has no choice but to
defend itself, as Hamas will not change its course of action.  Additionally, Hamas is not interested
in a secular state made up of Muslims and Christians (there are Christian
Palestinians) in the Palestine territories, but only a theocracy based on
Sharia or Islamic law.

Additionally, some of you should be ashamed of
yourselves.  Can’t we engage in an
honest discussion without the Anti-Semitic overtones… and must you hide under
the use of “Anonymous?”  Cowards.

I Am… I would hope that at some point religious
people would understand that we do, in fact, live in secular country and more
importantly, a secular world.  They only way humankind is going to survive
is to accept that there are many truths and none of them are absolute.
 Most people are born (or indoctrinated) into a belief system and never
question the teachings.  There are far too many flashpoints around the
world based on religious dogma.  I don’t advocate the banning of religion but
I do advocate the concept that one’s belief of a deity or no deity, and the
tenets of that belief, end at the point of my nose. 

At the end of the New Testament billions of non-believers are dead.  So, from these two examples (the Old and New Testaments) what can we learn?  We need to have a more ‘live and let live’ attitude when it comes to our dogma.  My belief system isn’t your belief system… does that mean we have to denigrate
each other?

Yes, Einstein was Jewish and believed in “God” but perhaps not the god that one immediately thinks of…

“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”

—Albert Einstein

As to his being Jewish he was…but what does that mean, as one can find Jews who are believers in God, as well as agnostics or even atheists.

“If the only country benefiting from this is Iran, why would Israel play right into their hands to begin with, or call a cease-fire now if there is no benefit to them?”

As a sovereign country Israel has the responsibility to defend its citizens and borders.  Hamas picked the time and place for their actions and Israel responded.

As to both Palestinian and Israeli Gandhis… why not.

The Palestinians are a pawn used by everyone… Arabs, Israel, Iran, Europe, Eurabia, Fatah, Hamas, Nassarists (if they still exist), the Developing World, the United Nations… and the Palestinians themselves who “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity” when it comes to peace.

Like you, 13strong, I don’t know what the answer is.  Perhaps a Palestinian Ghandi or Martin Luther King, Jr will appear.  But, it is quite evident that the current strategy of conflict and misery (in use since before 1948) is not working.

Thank you, 13strong, for your your civil and insightful comments regarding my post.  As to your comments about Iran and Hamas you will find many articles about the situation through Google from resources such as The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The BBC as well as many others.  In fact, The New York Times has such an article  (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13iran.html?hp) from January 12, 2009 titled, “Iran Gives Hamas Enthusiastic Support, but Discreetly, Just in Case.”Again, who benefits?  While Hamas party members and combatants may think that conflict will lead to martyrdom and the rewards that await them in heaven, what does conflict of this nature have to do with ordinary people who are just try to live their lives?  Once again Palestinians have been used by another power as expendable pawns in a no-win conflict.Just think what Palestinians and Israelis together could achieve without war or the threat of war.

After two weeks of hostilities (which Hamas instigated), UN ineffectiveness and international calls for a ceasefire, one has to ask… who is benefiting from this violence?  The average Palestinian in the street… I wouldn’t think so, what’s this going to get them but more misery.  Hamas… perhaps, but to what reasonable end?  I mean, sure their covenant calls for the destruction of Israel but, this just ain’t working (time for a new game plan).  The Israelis… nope.  These folks have better things to do, such as raising their children, taking care of their people, building their society.  Lets see… the Egyptians…no, they’re trying to broker peace as is Turkey and Jordon (the Hashemite Kingdom doesn’t need this right now). The West Bank Palestinian… they don’t seem to want to get involved. Hezbollah…gee, did they really win the conflict two years ago… awfully quiet.  The Saudis… well we really haven’t heard from them but it’s doubtful. How about the Syrians… possibly, but haven’t they been having secret negotiations with Israel through Turkey… unless, of course, Iran told them to knock it off.  Wait that’s it…Iran.  Iran benefits from all this.  They continue to want to control Syria and they certainly control Hamas and Hezbollah.  So what do they gain.  Well, they’re able to give lip service to their brave Revolutionary Guard being ready to support the Palestinian people… great propaganda to rally the Arab masses.  But, in fact, Iran hides behind the Palestinians just as Hamas hides behind homes, schools and mosques… such bravery.  What this conflict allows is for radical Shias in Iran to open up an area of tension right in an area dominated by Sunnis.  One piece of information that I find most interesting is that if Iran gets the bomb, the Saudis, Egyptians and Turkey have already stated that they would begin programs to get nukes themselves… what makes this interesting is that Israel has been reported to have a number of nukes for several decades and at no time did those countries see the need for them. Obviously, the Sunnis see Iran as a clear and present danger and by extension… Hamas.  As I said, time for a new game plan. Hamas, get a new covenant and get serious about peace.  Israel, take a step back and let everyone take a moment to breathe again, and offer a chance for peace.

Israel is not being provocative… it’s Israel’s being that is provocative.

And one more thing,

Suncaster, I want to party with you.

I do not speak for Israel, nor have I said they have the high moral ground.  And I don’t think that Israel looks to Hamas to set any examples… and I certainly don’t think that Israel should be held to a higher standard than other nations.  What I do believe is that there has to be a better way.  How we get there in large part is based on exchanging ideas… as we are doing now… but we can’t exchange ideas by yelling and name-calling.  All of us must be much more respectful of others.  If you are a person of religion please understand that your religion is only one of many… and that there are other truths.  If you are a secular person or a non-believer don’t belittle the beliefs of those who follow their faith.  Look, this world of ours is in terrible trouble… what are we going to do about it?

“… to add to the previous point.. since you say palestinians deserve what they are getting because they voted for Hamas… how about the people that did not vote for that group? do they deserve to die as well?”Never said that.  What I was trying to state is that there facts that can’t be overlooked.  I think that the Palestinians have suffered for a whole of reasons… sometimes because of Israel but often at the hands of other Palestinians and more often than not at the hands of despots in the middle East who use war as a way of enriching themselves and weakening the people’s resolve.  Whatever the reason Hamas needs to find a better way than war… Hamas needs to build Gaza, to enhance the standard of living for the people who have entrusted it with their vote.

Israel has not occupied Gaza since September 12, 2005,
thereby allowing the Palestinian people of the strip to set up its own
governing standards without an occupying entity dictating the terms.  

Elections were held (in Gaza and the West Bank), on January
25, 2006.  Voting participation was
quite high (77% overall, with 81% in Gaza). Contesting for power were Fatah and
Hamas. Hamas is the largest and most influential Palestinian militant (emphasis
militant) movement. Hamas won the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) general
legislative elections, defeating Fatah, the party of the PA’s president,
Mahmoud Abbas, and setting the stage for a power struggle between the two
groups. 

Since attaining power, Hamas has continued its refusal to
recognize the state of Israel, and continues to call for Israel destruction
through armed conflict.  This has
lead to economic sanctions.

Hamas, which grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood, is a
terrorist group supported by Iran and Hezbollah, carrying out suicide bombings
and attacks using mortars and short-range rockets. Hamas has launched attacks
both in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and inside
the pre-1967 boundaries of Israel. 

While many observers had hoped that governing
responsibilities would wean Hamas from terror and violence it clearly has not.
To date, the group has refused to abstain from violence and remains adamant
about reversing the decision by its rival faction, the more secular Fatah
movement, to recognize Israel’s right to exist. In the summer of 2007, Hamas
tensions with Fatah came to a head and Hamas routed Fatah supporters, killing
many and sending others fleeing to the West Bank. The result was a de facto
geographic division of Palestinian-held territory.

Since coming to power in Gaza, rockets fired by Hamas
militants have consistently landed on Israeli cities near the border, sometimes
producing casualties.  It is only
because of the early warning system and shelters that Israel had constructed
for protection that casualties were not higher. A six-month ceasefire calmed
things somewhat in 2008, but toward the end of the year, Hamas called off the
truce and resumed firing rockets into Israel.  The response was an air assault in late December and, in the
first week of 2009, a full-blown Israeli invasion of the territory.

Hamas’ founding charter commits the group to the destruction
of Israel, the replacement of the PA with an Islamist state on the West Bank
and Gaza, and to raising “the banner of Allah over every inch of
Palestine.” Hamas believes “peace talks will do no good,” said
the Hamas leader Abd al-Aziz Rantisi in April 2004. “We do not believe we
can live with the enemy.”

The conflict is a situation with seemingly no end in
sight.  Israel has no choice but to
defend itself, as Hamas will not change its course of action.  Additionally, Hamas is not interested
in a secular state made up of Muslims and Christians (there are Christian
Palestinians) in the Palestine territories, but only a theocracy based on
Sharia or Islamic law.

Additionally, some of you should be ashamed of
yourselves.  Can’t we engage in an
honest discussion without the Anti-Semitic overtones… and must you hide under
the use of “Anonymous?”  Cowards.

I Am… I would hope that at some point religious
people would understand that we do, in fact, live in secular country and more
importantly, a secular world.  They only way humankind is going to survive
is to accept that there are many truths and none of them are absolute.
 Most people are born (or indoctrinated) into a belief system and never
question the teachings.  There are far too many flashpoints around the
world based on religious dogma.  I don’t advocate the banning of religion but
I do advocate the concept that one’s belief of a deity or no deity, and the
tenets of that belief, end at the point of my nose. 

At the end of the New Testament billions of non-believers are dead.  So, from these two examples (the Old and New Testaments) what can we learn?  We need to have a more ‘live and let live’ attitude when it comes to our dogma.  My belief system isn’t your belief system… does that mean we have to denigrate
each other?

Yes, Einstein was Jewish and believed in “God” but perhaps not the god that one immediately thinks of…

“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”

—Albert Einstein

As to his being Jewish he was…but what does that mean, as one can find Jews who are believers in God, as well as agnostics or even atheists.